What It Takes To Build A Work Culture Of True Race Equity With EDP Training’s Bianca Jones

It’d be great to start at the beginning of your training journey and how that led you to race education and race equity training.

I was always a trainer in retail, helping people with their inductions, and that’s when I really fell in love with learning and development. Then I subsequently got made redundant when I was on maternity leave. Which was a big blow, and it was a big contributing factor of my postnatal depression for me after my daughter was born nine years ago. There were many factors, but the redundancy was definitely one of them.

When I got made redundant and I started to experience poor mental health, I started to think about what I could do and I found the Japanese concept of ikigai helpful. This is a model that asks what are you passionate about, what do people say you are good at, what does the world need and what could you get paid for.

I’ve always been into self-development. So I sat down with that model and I was really passionate about mental health because of what I was going through, and passionate about being able to be a vessel to spread the word about mental health and wellbeing.

I started looking at how I could do that and I came across Mental Health First Aid England (MHFA). I went to retrain with them over a six-week period. I was accessing health and support through doctors, therapy, and medication, but a big part of my recovery was my purpose. I was running my own courses with nothing but sheer belief. I was like, “I’m going to put on some open courses and spread the word. Nothing’s going to stop me. Just blind faith and so much passion.” I felt like it was my purpose.

The open courses went well and within a year my feedback was top rated. MFHA invited me to apply to be an associate instructor, which means you get work from them rather than finding your own clients. I did that and I’ve been an associate for eight years. I still do a lot of work for MFHA. I think it’s a fantastic course, a needed course. I believe everybody should go on one because we definitely need people on the ground supporting others. 

Then in 2019 I was delivering training to black and brown community groups about wellbeing and how to empower ourselves. It wasn’t for money, it was for social purposes because I was starting to see the inequalities for underrepresented groups.

Identifying as a woman of colour, I’m passionate about black and brown people’s wellbeing and mental health. I was talking to businesses, I was delivering mental health training about race equity, allyship, and wellbeing, and they weren’t very engaged with the relevance and didn't seem like a priority for many. Then the murder of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement happened.

Suddenly all these organisations were interested. They wanted race equity training with a wellbeing lens, bringing in the mental health side of my work. That allowed me to bring the community work I’d been doing to the forefront of my business, but it had to be packaged better.

So we made the Race Ahead suite of training. It’s anti-racism and allyship training with a wellbeing lens, particularly thinking about racially minoritised people in the workplace where we know there are clear disparities at recruitment, entry point, disciplinary measures, and progression.

Another factor for doing this was my own lived experience of postnatal depression. I experienced assumptions and stereotypes from doctors. I wasn’t being offered the same support as people from other backgrounds. The third time I went to the GP, they spoke to me about therapy. I felt there was an assumption because of the colour of my skin that I wouldn’t engage.

If that’s happening to me, someone born and raised in England, how many other black and brown people have not been offered what they have a right to access? I’ve also grown up with a close family member with schizophrenia, a severe psychological illness. That lived experience piece is vital. Hearing and listening to lived experience is powerful, and I weave that into all our training through storytelling and examples.

Thanks for being so candid about your mental health journey and lived experience Bianca. What really stands out to me about all this is you use the phrase organisational allyship in your messaging as a way to provide a lens for some of the issues.

What are the principles of organisational allyship and what should businesses be doing to really live by those principles?

The race equity and allyship work is interesting because most companies say, “We’re not racist, we don’t have a problem.” I have to overcome that hurdle first.

Our systems in England have been built over 400 years by people in power who didn’t include marginalised groups. So when companies say they’re not racist, I think we need to come from a point that most companies are a part of the system of racism, and it’s about acknowledging and undoing it.

Statistically, England is made up currently at about 18% black and brown people, according to the latest census. That should translate to the workplace, but workplaces are still mostly majority white. When we do visual audits and see a lack of racial diversity, it creates exclusion. For black and brown people it can feel like a hostile environment, especially with the experience of microaggressions. That impacts wellbeing and mental health.

We have to build the business case of why race equity is a duty of care. There’s an audit piece, and there’s a “why” piece. Training lands best when organisations communicate their why, not just that it’s the right thing, but what it will do for their people and business.

A whole organisational approach works best. Allyship transfers across all protected characteristics, like the curb-cut effect i.e. supporting one group helps many others.

Black people statistically have the poorest outcomes. So we need everyone on board. Even if someone doesn’t fully understand racism, they can understand the benefits of innovation, trust and diversity of thought about what an anti-racist work environment can look like. 

Training is just the start. Awareness and education are key. I always say “We can’t do allyship training without understanding what we’re being an ally to”. We need full programmes that include historical context, systemic racism, and how it shows up. Knowledge builds confidence and helps to dissolve discomfort. People act when they feel confident. Behaviour change is uncomfortable, but necessary for growth.

Managers are critical. They must role model allyship. It needs to come from the top down for best results. We also focus on giving permission as in permission to have difficult conversations. We teach people to focus on what was said or done, not label someone as racist. I’d love a workplace where someone can say, “That didn’t sound right, can we explore what you meant?” That’s developmental rather than accusatory.

Psychological safety is also key. Many people have never had space to talk about race. When they do, they’re grateful. After Black Lives Matter, many organisations rushed recruitment without understanding their WHY. People left because the culture didn’t change. So retention and progression rather than test.

We need cultural change, starting with education and awareness. Recruitment processes also need work in how language is presented, accessibility is provided and where roles are advertised. 

You mentioned it briefly but what role does psychological safety play in having honest conversations about race?

When I think about psychological safety, it’s something we intentionally build into the very beginning of our work. In our first course, we dedicate around an hour and a half purely to creating that sense of safety before any training even begins. That’s about making people feel comfortable enough to engage, not just for the participants but for us as instructors as well. 

Alongside that, we talk a lot about the idea of both safe spaces and brave spaces. Safe spaces are important, but brave spaces are equally critical. Brave spaces are where people are given permission to speak up, to share their thoughts and beliefs, to explore them openly, and to ask questions. It’s about allowing people to bring their full selves, their full identity, and their full frame of reference into the room in a way that is respectful and mindful, but also honest.

Psychological safety in a workplace means being able to speak up, contribute ideas, and challenge when something doesn’t feel right. It creates trust within teams, builds cohesion, and gives people the confidence to take risks, which ultimately benefits the organisation as a whole. 

But when we think specifically about black and brown people in the workplace, psychological safety becomes even more vital. Race is visible, and bias happens in an instant. The moment a Black person walks into a room, assumptions and stereotypes can be activated in under a second based on everything someone has previously absorbed, whether that’s media, environment, or limited exposure. That creates an immediate disadvantage that others don’t experience in the same way.

Unlike some other protected characteristics, race is not always something you can choose not to disclose, especially the colour of your skin. You can’t opt out of being seen as a person of colour. That adds another layer, especially when combined with the historical context of generational trauma and systemic inequalities that still ripple through workplaces today. When someone is one of very few in an organisation, and they don’t see people who look like them in leadership or senior roles, that has a real impact on their sense of belonging and confidence. It can affect what they feel able to share, particularly if their manager doesn’t share their lived experience, cultural context or social norms.

There are also the added pressures of code-switching and what I describe as mental gymnastics. You’re constantly monitoring how you speak, how you show up, how you might be perceived, how you present yourself, and how you might be perceived by others, in order to avoid reinforcing stereotypes. That’s an invisible load that many people carry, and it takes a toll over time on mental health, well-being, and psychological safety.

All of this is why education and allyship are so important. Organisations need to invest in awareness, in better processes, and in genuine cultural change. There’s a saying that you can’t be what you can’t see, and when people don’t see themselves reflected in positions of leadership or influence, it shapes their aspirations and their belief in what’s possible. 

So psychological safety isn’t just a nice to have. Fundamentally, it creates environments where honest conversations about race can happen and where people can truly thrive. 

Those are some great points. I wanted to touch on the idea of companies rushing to recruit people of ethnically diverse backgrounds in the wake of movements like Black Lives Matter. 

In these instances, businesses might be well-intentioned but there is always the risk of it being seen as another tick box exercise. How do you think businesses can avoid tokenism when trying to improve diversity? 

One of the biggest things we saw after the Black Lives Matter movement was organisations rushing to recruit racially diverse talent, often with good intentions, but without the strategy or infrastructure to support it. The reality is that much of that didn’t last. 

Posting a black square or making a public statement might signal awareness, but it doesn’t create meaningful change. Organisations need to go much deeper than that and start thinking about how they dismantle the systems and structures that create inequality in the first place.

A big part of that is understanding and clearly communicating their why. Why do they want to attract, retain and promote diverse talent? What does it mean for their organisation, their people, and their values? Without that clarity, efforts can become reactive rather than strategic. Culture also needs to shift alongside recruitment. That means investing in education, raising awareness, and listening to lived experience so that the environment people are entering is actually inclusive and safe.

Recruitment itself is often where the biggest barriers exist. In my experience, it’s a major bottleneck. Even when organisations implement things like blind CVs, they’re not always truly blind because there are still indicators that allow bias to come into play. If the culture isn’t right, even when diverse talent is recruited, people won’t stay. It can feel like bringing people into a space that isn’t ready for them, which can actually do more harm than good.

What’s needed is a much more strategic approach. Companies need to think carefully about what diverse talent brings and how they support it. I’m a big advocate for guaranteed interview schemes for underrepresented groups, similar to what we already do for disability. The issue isn’t that the talent doesn’t exist. It’s that people aren’t getting through the process to even be seen. So we need to remove those barriers.

There’s also work to be done around interview processes themselves. Having diverse panels, avoiding group interviews where bias can play out more visibly, and rethinking language like “culture fit” are all important. Often when people say they want the “best person,” what they actually mean is someone who feels familiar to them, which leads to sameness being replicated over and over again.

Finally, businesses need to think beyond numbers. Diversity isn’t just about hitting a percentage target. Where people are positioned within the company matters too. If all the racial diversity is concentrated in one area, such as catering or call centres, and not reflected in leadership or decision-making roles, then that’s not true inclusion. Avoiding tokenism means taking a holistic, long-term approach that addresses culture, systems, and representation at every level.

It occurs to me that showing the impact of these kinds of training programmes is one of the most effective ways to show they work and should be adopted by more companies. 

Have you seen any measurable behaviour change from your work?

Behaviour change in this space is very much linked to confidence and ongoing learning. It’s not something that happens overnight, and it works best when organisations see training as the starting point rather than the end. Where I’ve seen the most success is when organisations combine training with ongoing opportunities for people to come together in safe, facilitated spaces. These are places where they can continue the conversation, reflect on real situations, and build their confidence over time.

We do see improvements in what we can measure. People report increased knowledge and confidence, but the most meaningful changes are often in what’s harder to quantify. It’s the overall feel of the organisation. It’s when you return and see that people are talking more openly about culture, that they’re acknowledging events like Ramadan or Race Equality Week, or that individuals feel comfortable sharing aspects of their identity that they previously might have hidden. Those shifts in openness and cohesion are incredibly powerful, even if they don’t always show up immediately in data.

One practical tool that has made a significant difference for us is the use of microaggression logging forms. These allow organisations to capture issues early, rather than waiting for them to escalate into formal complaints or worse case tribunal cases. Most workplace issues around race don’t start as overt, intentional racism and they often begin with thoughtless comments or behaviours. The problem is how those situations are handled. 

What can happen is someone goes to their manager who usually doesn’t look like them. The manager hasn’t had any training around race and racism. So, the manager can gaslight by saying “I’m sure so and so didn’t mean it like that. What did you do?” When this gaslighting happens, not only is the person being harmed by microaggressions, they are being harmed by the gaslighting too and that’s what adds fuel to the fire. 

Managers play a critical role here. They have the ability to either de-escalate situations through empathy and understanding or escalate them through a lack of awareness or confidence. By giving managers the tools and confidence to respond appropriately, and by encouraging early reporting through mechanisms like logging forms, organisations can address patterns before they become bigger problems.

That early, preventative approach creates a ripple effect. It builds trust, reduces conflict, and contributes to a healthier culture overall. So while behaviour change takes time, these small, consistent interventions are where we start to see real, lasting impact and make it easier for people to recognise where they may be unintentionally upholding racism. 

Those are some great takeaways. My last question is are there any trends or tools that excite you about the future of the work you’re doing? 

From EDP’s perspective and our Race Ahead programme, we’ll continue to adapt our training in response to global events. For example, we’ve recently added Islamaphobia and anti-Muslim hate into our training. 

The tool I’m most excited about is our Race Equity Health Check. It's aimed at large organisations and HR, D&I, or people managers are the best placed to complete it. It’s a simple 12-question tool that takes under three minutes to complete. It gives organisations an immediate sense of where they are on their race equity journey. 

There’s four different areas that somebody can score emerging, evolving, transforming and strengthening. It’s not a pass or fail or a big red shiny light that screams, “you are racist!” Organisations are told how they compare to other companies in their sector and how they can improve. And if participants want to go deeper, they can join a monthly Zoom where we break down their score and support them to move forward and the best path for them and their stage.

The response has been really positive. We’ve already had around 200 organisations complete it, and the data we’re seeing confirms the same patterns and challenges coming up again and again across different sectors. That’s valuable because it allows us to be more targeted in how we support organisations. Ultimately, tools like that remove confusion and frustration. They give people clarity and a pathway forward, which is what many organisations are looking for.

I also think it’s important to pay attention to what’s happening globally and replicate it. Organisations can’t afford to ignore the wider context. External events whether that’s social movements or incidents of unrest have a direct impact on employees. I admire organisations that acknowledge that and take a clear stance, rather than trying to remain neutral. Can you really be neutral when harm is being done to humans? I’d like to see more companies taking a stand and saying where their stances are on global events.

What I’d really like to see is more organisations acknowledging where they may be part of systemic issues and taking active steps to dismantle those barriers. That alignment between individual intent and organisational systems is where real progress will happen.

Despite the challenges, I do feel hopeful. I meet so many people who genuinely want to do the right thing, who are passionate about allyship and creating change. The difficulty is that they’re often held back by existing systems, processes, and policies that haven’t evolved. It can feel like pushing against the tide. There’s momentum at an individual level, but structural barriers slow things down.

The combination of insight, data, and practical guidance is something I think will be incredibly powerful in driving meaningful change over the next few years, and that’s what really excites me about the future of this work.