Why EDI Is A Critical Friend To L&D With Chris Shearer-Wright

How has the subject of EDI changed since you moved into your EDI role?

I think there has been an evolution both in the types of learning opportunities and in engagement, whether that is through initiatives or simply engagement with the content that we put out there. That's evolved, but what's also evolved is our business, and probably many businesses at a similar stage in their inclusion journey.

It very much went from being almost its own entity, where I might have been brought into a conversation a little bit later down the line. In some cases that would be fine; in others it would provide a challenge because we would be looking at ways in which to unpick a few things to make sure that the end product, whether that was a physical product that we sold in our stores and online, a communications piece, a new process or a workshop opportunity, was as inclusive as it possibly could be.

Whereas now I feel as though it is not a standalone entity. It's actually woven through a lot of what we do. As a result of that, I will either be brought into a conversation and people will say, "We've thought about all of this before we even start," or, in some cases, I'm not even needed to be part of that conversation anymore because it has been ingrained into the way we work.

Why do you think it can be so hard for learning to be bridged into behaviour change, whether that's through training, L&D or another mechanism?

Is it down to the individual, how they learn, or are there other factors?

I think a lot of it is not about the individual, what the end result of their feedback is, or how they take something on board. I think sometimes the issue can be, as practitioners ourselves, not thinking as accessibly or as inclusively as we possibly can.

For example, thinking that a face-to-face workshop has always historically worked for us, so therefore we should continue doing that. That's all well and good. However, what we've got to appreciate is that, as we understand more about neurodiversity and differing learning preferences, we need to bring everyone along the way. Whether that means leaning more into virtual settings, establishing boundaries - if people are perhaps more comfortable with their camera off, that's fine, or more comfortable using the chat function rather than putting themselves on the spot. coming off mute and chatting, we need to allow for all of that.

Just because we don't hear from someone throughout, let's say, a 90-minute virtual workshop, that is fine. They've probably taken it in more than we realise. I think as well that, in order for something to be really successful, you have to have a blended approach.

In a business like ours, we're a mid-sized business but we are growing, we've got just over 2,000 team members across our business. Trying to make something or create something that caters to 2,000 people is no mean feat. So it's about keeping it varied and modifying it so that, even if there's a programme that's a mixture of learning resource; podcast pieces, video content, virtual workshops and face-to-face workshops, the variety is enough that even if someone thinks, "Gosh, I really don't do well in a classroom-style setting," they know that they can absorb it through other means as well. For us, I think that's the best way.

I’m going to assume that it’s never a one-size-fits all solution, but have you seen particular approaches work well when you're delivering workshops to neurodiverse audiences?

I think it’s effective to set a foundation before a learning experience. At the very beginning, when we started to really explore the nuances and complexities of our offer, as you said, it's not a one-size-fits-all approach, we need to be able to set the tone at the start of a workshop by saying, "Look, if you can have your camera on, that would be great. Feel free to come off mute, chime in and contribute as much as you want. Use the chat, or if you'd rather have your camera off and use the chat function, et cetera."

But we've gone further than that now. If we have virtual workshops, we say ahead of time, "If there's anything specific that you would like us to know that would help aid your learning journey as well, please feel free to reach out."

That might mean someone emails us and says, "Just so you know, I don't have my camera on because X, Y, Z," or, "I might not contribute loads to discussion, but it's not that I'm not taking it on board; it's just how I observe and absorb information."

So we feel as though we're almost having, for lack of a better expression, a little bit of an accessibility passport. We're starting to build an understanding of the people that come on to our workshops so that we know that, okay, we've got so-and-so coming from this store. We know that they're going to get lots out of it, even though they are not hugely interactive.

I feel as though one of the biggest lessons overall as a practitioner is that we always say, "The more you put into it, the more you get out of it" kind of thing. And whilst I do think there is something in that, it doesn't apply to everyone. Sometimes we might feel the struggle if people aren't participating or contributing. We're like, "Is the message not landing? Are they not getting it? Is this really flat?" But in fairness, sometimes it's literally just how they're absorbing the information.

You've described EDI as a critical friend to L&D. How would you communicate to an organisation that EDI and L&D are linked, and what are the benefits across different business functions?

Because my background is learning and development, it was very easy for that idea of it being a critical friend. I think it's a critical friend not only to the L&D function, but, as you said, to the business as a whole.

One of the things that I really like about my role is that there are so many touch points across our business in which I work, whether that be through our Retail teams or our Customer Service teams. For example, we might get some feedback from a customer on a product range or perhaps or more specifically, we might get some feedback on the size inclusivity of our clothing range. For me, it's about supporting the Customer Service team in going back to the customer in a really meaningful way that isn't just trying to placate or pull the wool over their eyes, saying, "We'll pass that feedback on to our teams," we really do the work on our end to be able to respond honestly and transparency.

Then there are things with our product teams. I might get brought into the room to discuss product names and names of collections based on our Buying or Design teams' inspirational visits, where they perhaps travel overseas. We need to make sure that the language we use is very much appreciative rather than appropriative.

Then from a People and L&D function, it's about really robustly scrutinising our policies and processes and making sure that they're as explicitly inclusive as they possibly can be.

From an L&D perspective, I think it's about making sure that all of our offer, regardless of the topic, is inclusive. Whether it's the more traditional L&D subjects such as train-the-trainer or communication skills, down to the more bespoke inclusive leadership workshops that we develop in-house around leading multi-generational teams, equitable decision-making, or culture add versus culture fit from a recruitment perspective, we need to make sure that actually, regardless of whether it's something that is purely EDI-specific learning or more traditional behavioural leadership - the L&D bread and butter, all of that content is really inclusive.

By inclusive, I mean accessible. The learning content needs to be varied enough to keep people's attention and keep people engaged, but also to make sure that it lands.

Have you found that you've had much autonomy in influencing internal policies from an EDI perspective, and what does the process look like when you're responding to updated regulations?

I sit within the wider People function, so we collaborate a lot cross-functionally across the People team, including Recruitment, Internal Communications, EDI, L&D and the more HR side of the people function as well. We work very well together.

One thing that we've done to ensure that the policies are, as I said, explicitly inclusive rather than implicit, is because when I first joined the business, I would say that it was a very inclusive place to work, but our policies were implicitly inclusive.

For example, our parental leave was more skewed towards maternity, and it wasn't really until we had our first same-sex couple within the business have children that it was very much, "Oh, well, they would just get the same sort of parental leave as a mother going off on maternity." It was very much, "Of course, that's how we work things."

But I think what's really important about shifting from implicit to explicit is that if people are new in the door or perhaps don't have a huge amount of exposure to other people across the business, if something isn't literally saying, "This applies to you, we mean you," then they might think, "Well, that doesn't apply to me, and therefore I might have to go elsewhere," or, "Actually, if I'm going to have children with my partner, it might be better if I resign."

That's just one example, and of course I'm going back 14 years now, but it's one example of where we realised that actually we needed to be much more upfront and transparent about what we're talking about.

So that's a very collaborative way of working within that team. But we also engage our ERGs quite a lot, not necessarily in the policy development itself, but by asking, "What would you like to see there? What would speak to you?" Then, whenever that policy is drafted, we run a policy past them to get their feedback and buy in before it's published.

For example, our Asian and Mixed Heritage Voices network were really instrumental in our Religion and Belief at Work policy and our Disability and Chronic Illness Voices and Neurodiverse Voices helped shape a more meaningful return-to-work meeting for those with longstanding or chronic illnesses.

Historically, the questions around returning to work might be, "What is the possibility of this reoccurring in the next six months?" The fact of the matter is, for someone with a chronic illness, it's actually highly likely that the reasons for absence might reoccur or that they might have a flare-up. Changing the wording to make the conversation really supportive, rather than asking what the chances are of something coming back in six months, might seem like a small thing, but it could feel quite pointed to someone who's thinking, "Well, of course it's going to come back because this is my life."

Then, lastly, our LGBTQ+ Voices were really helpful and supportive in our Transition at Work policy, and most recently really supportive in creating some communications that we've shared internally around the EHRC's code of practice around single-sex spaces.

How can organisations avoid inclusion programmes becoming tick-box exercises and instead build programmes that genuinely make a difference?

I think what's really important is to focus on what is needed and what's not, and what is a nice-to-have.

Of course Pride activation throughout the month of June can be meaningful and marking Black History Month in October can be impactful. But, is the activation aiding or supporting the communities that they celebrate?Or, is it just a ‘nice-to-have’?

For me, what is more impactful is robust policy around, for example, if one of your team members is going to transition, what does that look like? What support can we give them whilst they are potentially going through treatment, or whether they are at the stage in their journey where they're going to undergo gender reassignment surgery or whatever that might look like?

These things matter. I feel as though what we've got, and the reason we've called our networks the Voices networks, is because we want them to share their experience, share their opinions and share their feedback. 

Back when we first embarked on an inclusion journey, one of our pillars of our EDI strategy was "listen and learn". After two years, when we came to revisit it and we'd made some really solid commitments, we moved that on from "listen and learn" to "research and innovation" because we thought to ourselves, there's only so much listening that we can do before people start going, "Well, actually, where's the change? What have you done? What are you doing?"

The idea of "we are listening, we are learning" can be more formulaic and a little bit more tick-box. We really want to take what we're being told and make it viable for our business.

We're also really upfront with our teams when something isn't going to work for us, going back to them and saying, "This isn't really very OB, and here's why." I personally like to work very transparently and be upfront and honest with people about where we're at and what good can look like, even if we're at the very beginning of a process.

I'd much rather bring people along rather than leave them behind and think, "Well, I'm just going to crack on and I'll let you know when I'm done." and I feel as though that's where we've gotten the most insightful and impactful work that we've done: when we've brought people along with us.

What are your favourite mechanisms for measuring impact and gathering both qualitative and quantitative data?

There are a few channels in the way we do it. Our biggest company measure is through our annual engagement survey. We call them Joy at Work surveys at Oliver Bonas, and we have a dedicated section with six or seven questions around inclusion, belonging and employee voice.

That's a really good one to get a read on the majority of the business because, of course, not everyone across the business is a member of these Voices Networks.

The networks themselves are brilliant in terms of qualitative feedback as well. I meet with the leads of these networks once a month to discuss what's been shared, what some of their concerns are, and whether there's something going on that's flagging up as a bit of a concern.

I guess the most recent example of that is the EHRC's updated guidance and the sort of negative impact that had on our trans and non-binary colleagues, and what that meant for them at work. What it does mean at work is business as usual because we don't have single-sex spaces as standard anyway - they're all gender-neutral spaces, so for us, we have not had to implement any changes.

At first I had the mindset of “it doesn't impact us as a business because nothing needs to change." But we did need to communicate that with our teams. That was really important to them, that they could see that we had got their backs.

Surveys and feedback questionnaires following workshops are also really good for qualitative feedback. But for us, things that we explore and try to get a read on include whether there's an area of discussion in our workshops that aids managers to successfully have conversations with people, meaning that the number of ER cases or grievances raised about people have reduced.

That's not because they're not happening. It's because we've empowered a manager to have a more substantial, meaningful or challenging conversation with people, rather than being referred automatically to the People team.

And then, whilst it's not easy to measure, for us it's also about sentiment. How do our teams feel after taking something from a workshop and applying that in real time?

Receiving communications or an email from someone saying that they really appreciated something, that it left them feeling far more capable of having that difficult conversation or having that discussion that they knew they'd been meaning to have for ages but just didn't feel quite equipped with the right tools, and now they do. 

From an AI perspective, what are your thoughts on how it might impact EDI policies, and where do you see it coming in at the moment?

I would say it's about approaching it with caution, questioning it and challenging it. What I've noticed and what I've read a lot about is how biased the system can be. If you asked it, for example, to describe a doctor and describe a nurse, the chances are that it would describe the doctor as male and the nurse as female.

Whenever I've used it, it's been quite low-touch at the moment. It might just be to summarise an agenda, summarise minutes, or I might put a bunch of thoughts into it and say, "Help me build a skeleton framework for a training programme," or something like that.

I'm approaching it both curiously and cautiously because I do think that it can aid workstreams. But the caution comes from really scrutinising the content that it comes back to me with. Is it trustworthy? Is it accurate? Is it the most up to date? Is it giving me legislation from America when we're in the UK?

What do you think will be the major discussion topics within the EDI space over the next couple of years?

I reckon that it's going to be around true multi-generational teams. As of 2028, we'll have five generations in the workforce as Generation Alpha enters the workplace.

Gen Z and Gen Alpha are both interesting generations for different reasons. Gen Z have a higher expectation on their employer to look after them than they do the government, which I find fascinating. But it just means that, from an EDI perspective, I think what we've got to be doing is really making sure that we're investing in these generations and making sure that we are doing what we should by them.

What does our EAP system look like? What counselling services do they have? What's their level of importance on mental health and wellbeing, for example? What more can we offer our teams? Then I think once we get into a sweet spot of fully understanding Gen Z, the new challenge will be Gen Alpha.

The fact that the cost of living is so expensive means fewer people are seeing university as an option because of the cost of tuition. But I also think a lot of people are seeing it as not only not being an option, but not being the only option, and are viewing apprenticeships and other ways of learning on the job and making money as alternatives.

As a result of that, we're going to have 16-year-olds in the workplace at the same time that we're going to have people in their 70s. I think if managed well, it will be really innovative and exciting and encourage new ways of working but, because of differing working and communication preferences if left unchecked could be challenging.

If we continue with business as usual, it may well be that more conflict arises among those generations. A lack of understanding of what's important to each other could provide a little bit of tension and conflict and ultimately really impact team dynamics very negatively.

So I think that's for sure a focus. Neurodiversity for sure as well. Quite rightly, that has continued to be a focus, as it has been for the last couple of years. It's really nice to see how much of a focus businesses and providers are putting on understanding neurodiversity.

How do you keep learning as a practitioner? What are your favourite learning mechanisms, organisations or sources?

Genuinely, I think it's just about keeping your eyes and ears open to the world. It's evolving so quickly. Everything is evolving so quickly. We think that we've nailed something, and then there'll be a new piece of learning or new studies that have shown something different, whether that be from a race and inclusion perspective or a neurodiversity perspective.

So I think it's just about keeping your eyes and ears open. We are members of Diversity in Retail, a community of, I think, about 300 organisations across retail, hospitality, hotels and leisure throughout the UK. It's really interesting to learn from other retailers, obviously, because that's helpful, but actually, for me, what's really interesting is understanding what people outside of our industry are doing and being able to think about how we could apply those learnings and implementations into a retailer. I really like to look outside of our industry as well for inspiration.

And then, for me, it's like I said: every day is a school day. Podcasts, articles, newspapers, reports, things like that. It's about being able to keep on top of it all. It's really fast-paced and ever-evolving. It’s exciting.